IPv6 cookbook - was RA vs. DHCPv6 discussion

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

On 6/9/2010 1:21 AM, michael.dillon at bt.com wrote:
>
>   [irrelevant SCIENCE references deleted]
>
>> But THE FACT IS THAT THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS EVERYONE'S CONVENIENT
>> LANGUAGE.
>
> Actually, your references only demonstrate that English is convenient
> for the few people who form part of the scientific elite which engage
> in publishing research and teaching. Even that is probably still a
> minority of scientists.
>

Well I was actually going to say that the English Language is everyone's
convenient whore but I didn't want my post to get censored.  Now that
it's out, it won't matter if it does.

> Here in the real world of network operations we see things like this
> <http://www.interface.ru/home.asp?artId=18323>
>
> If you can't read Russian, it translates as "Cisco translated into
> Russian
> its CCNA and CCENT certification programmes".

Except that with Bablefish I can generally get the data I need out
of sites like that.  Most software I work with the config files use
english keys, even for the non-english localizations.

Unfortunately, these days there's such a high signal-to-noise ratio
on English websites that more and more in the last few years I've
found answers to obscure questions (like for example, has anyone
seen such and such happening in such and such program) on non-english 
language sites much faster than it would take to dig them out of
the spammed-up English web.

I fully expect that the non-English Internet is going to be stuffed
with advertising and other such rubbish in a few years and then I
won't be able to find anything there anymore, either.

>> Like it or not, there are fundamental advantages to using a SINGLE
>> language in the diplomatic, scientific, economic and technological
>> realm.
>
> In the diplomatic realm English-speaking government officials make
> a point of using their native language with translators when they
> meet, such as the UN Security Council. A notable exception was when
> Vladimir Putin and Angela Merkel of Germany met without translators
> because both were fluent in German and Russian.
>
> In the technological realm, the few who can manage good English, spend
> some of their time translating documents into their native language
> or presenting at conferences in their native language. You, however,
> being handicapped by not speaking several languages, cannot see this
> even though it is blatantly obvious to the rest of us.
>

Once more your being totally besides the point.  The issue isn't that
speakers of only a single descendant dialect of proto-human are 
handicapped.  The issue is that scientific and technological advancement 
works best the more players involved, and the story
"Tower of Babel" serves as warning to the scientific and technological
community should it NOT standardize on a single language.

Most members of the scientific and technological community have
recognized this which is why so many observers have noticed the
standardization on a single language.

Michael what your trying to do is obscure this simple truth with
nationalistic fervor.  We all know (or should) that cultures are
very much tied up with their language.  You could not, for example,
have much of a Japanese culture left if you took away the Japanese 
language. (a fact made very obvious to my son, who learned to speak
it)  But, technology and science are the SAME across the entire world,
a Transistor operates the same in the US as it does in Japan, the
electrons don't care what language the people are speaking

English ended up the de-facto language whore for a variety of reasons,
some of which aren't even applicable any longer - the US isn't even
the scientific leader in a number of areas anymore, Japan is.  So yes I
can get the annoyance of non-English speakers when they run into this,
and the Japanese don't help much either since they happily borrow
English words and mix them up with Kanji when they feel like it, so
the non-English-speaking scientist cannot even hold out the hope
that as Japan ascends over the US that English will be replaced by
some other language (ie: Japanese) as the de-facto language of science,
as a kind of "in-your-face, Westerners" revenge thing.

But believe me, if English didn't exist, some OTHER language would
become the de-facto scientific standard language and all of you 
political correctness types would be screaming about some other culture
hegemony.

You make the VERY COMMON MISTAKE that MANY people make when they
equate adoption of the English language to indicate adoption of
the Western culture.   Well, just remember that the World Trade
Center terrorists who flew the airplanes into the Twin Towers
had an excellent command of English, to the point they were
even getting certified to fly jets - but they certainly didn't
adopt the US culture.

I would go so far as to say that one of the PRIMARY reasons that
English has supplanted German and French is because of this.
When you encounter a multilingual person who is a non-native
French speaker, or a non-native German speaker, who has taken
the time to learn French or German, you know the second they open
their mouths to speak it that not only do they know the language
but they have an affinity for the French or German culture as well.
Because, few people (nowadays) who don't speak French natively
will take the trouble to learn it.

By contrast, nobody would assume that a Frenchman who speaks English
s a second language decided to choose English because he has an
affinity for the Brits.  People know they can learn English without 
feeling that their cultural identity is being threatened or that other 
people will assume they buy-off on Western hegemony

> Let's all remember that we need to get everybody to deploy IPv6 in
> order to achieve the network effects which make the Internet such
> a valuable tool. And to do that, someone needs to speak their language
> and teach them.

Correct.

> Best practices should be widely available in as many
> languages as possible, and if we can manage to collect them in one
> place, and publicise the collection, then other people will do the
> translating work. We don't have to organize that; we just have to
> collect the best practices of IPv6 in the first place.
>

I think you will find that what gets collected on the ARIN wiki isn't
going to help the unwashed masses (ie: everybody) on to IPv6.  It's
going to be too technical.

The unwashed masses what a plastic box they can buy that autoconfigures
itself and "puts them on IPv6"

Ted

> --Michael Dillon
>
>