AW: Questions for an ISP

[Elmer Sandro]

First off, thanks for your time!

> You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this like, 10 years ago or so? :)
I do realize this but up until this very year, the answer had been "We do not support IPv6 as of yet". IPv6-deployment is a sad topic in Switzerland, as only some smaller, witty ISPs are fully supporting IPv6. Swisscom (the biggest?) is now starting to deploy 6rd(!) to private households.
We are (strategically) with another big ISP in Switzerland, and SOME services are now available in IPv6, but not the private households and not the standard business SDSL connections. Maybe by the end of this year.

So we're selling IT-services to smaller and midsized companies and have different connections in place, mostly SDSL, some fiber and bigger offices have iBGP (typo :P)

With IPv6 we want to be ready for the future (and no, we definitely won't make it on the 6th ;)). My main concern are edge networks so that we can deliver web services and the likes via dualstack.

> To accomplish which goals?
As Kurt has remarked already, up until this year the ISP DIDN'T have any roadmap at all (and doesn't mention IPv6 in the slightest on their website), so I'm eager to see it =)

>>What services are planned to run on IPv6
>Does this not completely depend on what services you need?
It sure does, but they might have something new up their sleeves. As I've said, I'm trying to put together a list of questions to probe our ISPs current IPv6 status and I hoped people here could help out. Might be that I misunderstood the purpose of this list...

>>Would they agree to run a proof of concept
>Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?
I will tell them so :P

>>How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried
>>getting a C-range this year, no luck J)
>You do know that CIDR was introduced in 1993, nearly 20 years ago? :)
Yep, but apparently a /24 ist mandatory for a new iBGP config on a new site. 

>> Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or
>> does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services
For their services (be it SDSL or MPLS or whatever), they install their own hardware (modems, routers) in our datacenters. Therefore I need to know wheter they will need to replace that hardware, should we start implementing IPv6 with them.
 
>> Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
 > Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network
>> or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device 
>> limitations?
>If your "ISP" lets you do 6to4 you are really doing something wrong.
I think it's a valid question wheter the ISPs infrastructure _fully_ supports IPv6 throughout their network or wheter there are areas they currently have to overcome by other means...

Regards,
Sandro

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen at unfix.org] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Mai 2012 11:18
An: Elmer Sandro
Cc: ipv6-ops at lists.cluenet.de
Betreff: Re: Questions for an ISP

On 2012-05-25 10:54 , Elmer Sandro wrote:
> Hi Everyone
> 
>  
> 
> We're about to have a meeting with our ISP regarding their IPv6 
> Roadmap and products.

You do realize it is already 2012 and that you should have done this like, 10 years ago or so? :)

> Can anyone share a few questions I should ask our ISP?

Does it not completely depend on what your organization does and what your requirements are? :)

You might want to describe what kind of organization you have and what kind of connectivity you need.

I am not entirely sure this list is fully appropriate for these kind of questions though.


You might want to first understand what your own network is used for and what you actually want to achieve with IPv6 and why you want it and if you might even need it at all at this point.

You should though start moving to it, though you should have done that a long time ago already.


> So far I thought of these:
> 
> ·         Roadmap in general

To accomplish which goals?

The roadmap for full IPv6 deployment should have been the beginning of the year and utmost 6th of june 2012, that is in ~10 days.

> ·         Are there different approaches to different services (Business
> SDSL, Fiber, MPLS, iBPG, private households etc)

There will be lots of differences, does it matter if it does not affect you?

(you likely mean iBGP btw)

> ·         How will IPv6 be implemented (Native IPv6 with Dual-Stack, 6rd
> or whatever)

If you are a company you should demand NATIVE IPv6, anything else is just a transition method and should be avoided as much as possible.

Only reason to use something intermediate is if it is too costly to upgrade hardware to get native IPv6 or if a hardware-cycle is coming up (which one could have done in the last 10 years) to upgrade it to IPv6 capable.

> ·         Will we be able to register our "own" IPv6 prefix or does the
> ISP assign one to us (thus forcing a prefix-change when changing ISPs)

IPv6 PI exists nowadays, but the better question is if you would really need it.

> ·         What services are planned to run on IPv6

Does this not completely depend on what services you need?

> ·         Would they agree to run a proof of concept

Should they not have done that already in the last 10 years?

> ·         How long until their IPv4 addresses are depleted (we tried
> getting a C-range this year, no luck J)

You do know that CIDR was introduced in 1993, nearly 20 years ago? :)

You should have requested a /24 along with proper justification and all should have been more than perfectly fine. IANA is out but the RIRs are not yet and most LIRs have space to burn for several years to come if they planned properly.

> ·         Will a change of hardware (modems, routers) be necessary or
> does their current equipment support their new IPv6 services

Depends on what your current equipment is, not?

> ·         Short explanation of their IPv6-implementation process works,
> steps/time necessary
> 
> ·         Costs

Depends on the hardware changes and something really important: training You as a customer should not have to cough up their part of that though.

> I also found these, but can't think of what their answers would imply:
> 
> ·         Who do you have peering relationships with?

Google for how ISPs work and you know.

> ·         Are these peer relationships native or tunnelled?

They should all be native unless the argument above of upgrading hardware does not work.

> ·         As a customer, can you provide BGP peering to my corporate
> network?

Do you need it?

> ·         Compare your IPv6 and IPv4 network designs?
> 
> ·         Will my IPv6 traffic be native throughout your entire network
> or will there be areas of 6to4 tunnelling to overcome current device 
> limitations?

If your "ISP" lets you do 6to4 you are really doing something wrong.

> So if anyone can think of some more out of their experiences with ISPs 
> picking up IPv6, I'd be thankful.

I think you are trying to ask the wrong questions...

Greets,
 Jeroen