And now, for your regularly scheduled dose of broken ipv6 routing...

[Carlos Friacas]

Hi,


On Sun, 24 Sep 2006, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
>> On 22-sep-2006, at 10:16, Carlos Friacas wrote:
>
>>> For what i've seen so far, the measurements i get with a smaller
>>> difference than 1ms between v4 & v6 are from other NRENs (to be more
>>> accurate... 13 of them to the date). Could be better, could be worse...
> [..]
>> I was going to show you that from my system to www.fccn.pt IPv6 is worse
>> than IPv4, but I don't get any ping replies over IPv4 so never mind...
>
> It's always funny to hear folks complain who are in academic networks.

Academic networks are not perfect. :-)


> See my traceroute to www.fccn.pt, going through level3 -> to GEANT
> Italy, Geneva, mad.ch (dunno which that one is), an unnamed hop and then
> finally to portugal. Nice detour we have there ;)

Our GEANT2 attachment is through London and Madrid (you can see that on 
dante's website - it's public). We're still using GEANT1 addressing, and 
that will be changed *this* week to GEANT2 addressing - this is the 
probable reason for your "dunno". :-)


> Fortunately there are also NREN's which actually have some decent
> connectivity, see the second trace to SWITCH, which only takes 21ms to
> get in Zurich (v4 is about 20ms ;), while it takes the former 100ms+ to
> get in Italy. One would almost think that l3 is routing over the US ;)
> But one can't tell as the reverses don't exist.

Level3 is one of 20695's transit providers both for v4+v6... 
IMHO, switch's degree of "decent-ness" comes from the geographic location 
*and* not depending exclusively on 20965 and Level3.


> The v4 path to www.fccn.pt is only 45ms to their first host which drops
> traces, while it is 150+ for the v6 one, ouch!

Yes... thanks mostly to Level3... 
looking below, the IPv6 1st hop in as20965 is 115ms away and the hop in 
lisbon is 158ms away. the difference is 43ms. and the entry point in geant 
seems to be Milano (.IT).
now for IPv4: 1st hop in as20965 is 19ms, and the same box in lisbon is 
45ms. so we get a 26ms distance. the naughty bit here is that the v4 entry 
point is not Milano, but London (.UK).
That might explain the 17ms surplus we see.
But i guess the biggest problem is the 115ms/19ms figure...

Nice example. I guess i'll bother a few people. :-)



> ISC pings at 150ms v4 versus 171ms v6 btw, note that that is almost as
> good as riding GEANT to Portugal from the Netherlands ;)
>
> To not make this a complete rant against NREN's/GEANT/fccn (note that I
> said nice things about SWITCH :),

Hmmm... for what i've seen as1930 and as20965 are somewhat innocent...


> I would like to propose that *any*
> location who has significant differences in latency between IPv4 and IPv6
> a) sign up to GRH, this so we can can help them out
>    in seeing where the bgp tables for them are not
>    favourable for them.

Already did that, a long time ago :-)
fccn's ASN = 1930


> b) maybe install a RIPE TTM box.
>    This will give them all the immeasurably superior(*)
>    they will need to fix up their networks. Politics
>    seem to be a huge problem in that area too though,
>    but as operators, instead of screaming and yelling
>    most can't help out there unfortunately.
>    TTM already has a number of NREN players but also quite a lot
>    of commercial ones. And we do want to be able to talk between
>    those two don't we? Or don't we need google.com as .edu or don't
>    we need the very large ftp.heanet.ie archives as .com? :)

this one is ours... :-)

tt55.ripe.net has address 193.136.6.18
tt55.ripe.net has IPv6 address 2001:690:a00:4002::18:55


> But that is just my proposal of an end user of the various networks
> around this nice and bright planet, oh no not anymore, the sun just set
> behind the mountains ;)
>
> Greets,
> Jeroen
>
> * This is a term taken from http://www.he.net/colo_ipv6.htm "Currently,
> our IPv6 routing is immeasurably superior to other existing companies.
> Our routing table has more prefixes (routes) and more paths to each
> prefix (ways to get to a destination address block) than most other IPv6
> providers."
>
> --
> Le traces:
>
> $ traceroute6 www.fccn.pt
> traceroute to www.fccn.pt (2001:690:a00:40aa:2c0:9fff:fe20:e261) from
> 2001:838:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> 1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:1:1::1)  0.408 ms  0.458
> ms  0.671 ms
> 2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:0:10::1)  2.006 ms  1.958
> ms  1.956 ms
> 3  nl-ams04a-re1-fe-0-0.ipv6.aorta.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:6830:1)  2.635
> ms  2.451 ms  2.581 ms
> 4  2001:1900:5:3::1d (2001:1900:5:3::1d)  85.499 ms  85.542 ms  85.396 ms
> 5  2001:1900:5:2::6 (2001:1900:5:2::6)  103.504 ms  103.4 ms  117.002 ms
> 6  so-3-0-0.rt1.mil.it.geant2.net (2001:798:cc:1001:1e01::2)  115.895
> ms  115.97 ms  116.035 ms
> 7  so-6-3-0.rt1.gen.ch.geant2.net (2001:798:cc:1201:1e01::1)  123.046
> ms  122.98 ms  122.946 ms
> 8  so-7-0-0.rt1.mad.ch.geant2.net (2001:798:cc:1201:1701::2)  145.389
> ms  145.352 ms  145.259 ms
> 9  2001:798:cc:1701:2401::2 (2001:798:cc:1701:2401::2)  157.925 ms
> 159.905 ms  157.728 ms
> 10  fccn-gw.pt1.pt.geant.net (2001:798:2024:10aa::2)  157.981 ms  157.92
> ms  157.9 ms
> 11  2001:690:800:1::7 (2001:690:800:1::7)  158.216 ms  158.059 ms
> 158.067 ms
> 12  2001:690:800:1::7 (2001:690:800:1::7)  157.703 ms !S  158.3 ms !S
> 157.819 ms !S
>
> $ traceroute www.fccn.pt
> traceroute to www.fccn.pt (193.136.2.218), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
> 1  ge-1-3-0.colo.breda.concepts-ict.net (213.197.29.1)  0 ms  0 ms  0 ms
> 2  at-0-3-1.nikhef.concepts-ict.net (213.197.27.126)  2 ms  2 ms  2 ms
> 3  Gi0-0-203.ams-koo-access-2.interoute.net (212.23.59.161)  3 ms  3 ms
> 3 ms
> 4  PO6-1.ams-koo-core-1.interoute.net (212.23.41.137) [MPLS: Label 58
> Exp 0]  110 ms  95 ms  34 ms
> 5  PO2-0.fra-006-core-2.interoute.net (84.233.190.22) [MPLS: Label 48
> Exp 0]  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
> 6  PO6-0.fra-012-inter-1.interoute.net (212.23.42.166)  10 ms  10 ms  9 ms
> 7  ffm-b3-geth1-2-1-102.telia.net (213.248.103.53)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
> 8  ffm-bb2-link.telia.net (80.91.249.142)  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms
> 9  prs-bb2-pos7-0-0.telia.net (213.248.65.117)  20 ms  20 ms  21 ms
> 10  ldn-bb2-pos7-0-0.telia.net (213.248.65.113)  18 ms  19 ms  18 ms
> 11  ldn-b2-link.telia.net (80.91.249.189)  18 ms  18 ms  18 ms
> 12  dante-01233-ldn-b2.c.telia.net (213.248.75.110)  18 ms  19 ms  20 ms
> 13  so-5-0-0.rt1.lis.pt.geant2.net (62.40.112.145)  45 ms (TOS=128!)  45
> ms  45 ms
> 14  fccn-gw.pt1.pt.geant.net (62.40.103.178)  46 ms  45 ms  45 ms
> 15  Router3.GE.Lisboa.fccn.pt (193.137.0.10)  45 ms  45 ms  45 ms
> 16  * *
>
> $ traceroute6 www.switch.ch
> traceroute to oreius.switch.ch (2001:620:0:1b::b) from
> 2001:838:1:1:210:dcff:fe20:7c7c, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
> 1  fe0.breda.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:1:1::1)  0.401 ms  0.361
> ms  0.343 ms
> 2  se2.ams-ix.ipv6.concepts-ict.net (2001:838:0:10::1)  2.021 ms  2.167
> ms  1.949 ms
> 3  eth10-0-0.xr1.ams1.gblx.net (2001:7f8:1::a500:3549:1)  2.91 ms
> 2.543 ms  2.768 ms
> 4  2001:450:2001:1000:0:670:1708:128
> (2001:450:2001:1000:0:670:1708:128)  11.512 ms  11.732 ms  11.764 ms
> 5  2001:450:2002:10::2 (2001:450:2002:10::2)  22.106 ms  21.051 ms
> 21.453 ms
> 6  swiEL2-10GE-1-3.switch.ch (2001:620:0:c06a::2)  21.637 ms  21.68 ms
> 21.326 ms
> 7  swiCP2-10GE-2-0-1.switch.ch (2001:620:0:c049::1)  21.774 ms  21.675
> ms  21.582 ms
> 8  oreius.switch.ch (2001:620:0:1b::b)  21.292 ms  21.942 ms  21.344 ms
>
>


Cheers,

./Carlos                                               Skype: cf916183694
--------------
          Wide Area Network (WAN) Workgroup, CMF8-RIPE, CF596-ARIN
FCCN - Fundacao para a Computacao Cientifica Nacional  http://www.fccn.pt

  "Internet is just routes (196663/675), naming (millions) and... people!"