<html><head><base href="x-msg://260/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>Let's get ISOC to declare June 6, 2013, "World 6to4 Off Day"</div><div><br></div><div>- Mark</div><br><div><div>On Mar 1, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">And now, with the 100.64.0.0/10 being deployed, I wonder how many CPE will believe that have a public IPv4 address and start behaving as a 6to4 relay...<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Beside looking at the CGN logs, I wonder how we could measure those really fake 6to4 addresses (hummm I will modify my fake BitTorrent client to see how many of those addresses are ‘used’)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">-éric<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding-top: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 4pt; "><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ipv6-ops-bounces+evyncke=cisco.com@lists.cluenet.de" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ipv6-ops-bounces+evyncke=cisco.com@lists.cluenet.de</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:ipv6-ops-bounces+evyncke=<a href="mailto:cisco.com@lists.cluenet.de" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">cisco.com@lists.cluenet.de</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tim Chown<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vendredi 1 mars 2013 07:03<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Brzozowski, John Jason<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Ole Troan; IPv6 Ops list; Ignatios Souvatzis<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: 6to4 status (again)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On 1 Mar 2013, at 14:46, "Brzozowski, John Jason" <<a href="mailto:jjmb@jjmb.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jjmb@jjmb.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Oh btw not everyone will turn their relays off. Someone will try to be a hero. :)<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">In the early days the hero was SWITCH. But I refer you to Batman on the topic of heroes :)<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Anyway, it would be great to get a list of, as Brian puts it, 'legacy' equipment that is doing this, or of specific applications that may be doing so (e.g. maybe P2P on certain platforms). Any intel from John or elsewhere would be really interesting. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I know a significant number of Apple Airport Extremes were 'guilty' a few years ago, but updates were made available for that. Whether those were applied automatically or otherwise is another question.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Tim<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On Mar 1, 2013 8:20 AM, "Tim Chown" <<a href="mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Ole Troan <<a href="mailto:ot@cisco.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ot@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">John,<o:p></o:p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><br>> Ole we actually have experience that tells us it would be bad if we turned our relays. Some streaming service experience is already not optimal over 6to4 using our relays largely related to the protocol not the relays themselves. Turning ours down would result in the use of a single 6to4 relay on someone else's network. Further this relay is hosted by a university. For now we think it makes more sense to keep our running and encourage client side disablement until there is ~0 bits over 6to4.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">yep, I understand the choice and what bind you're in.<br>my hope was that everyone, including the university would stop their 6to4 public relays.<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Well that university should quickly spot the 'DoS' that would suddenly hit it, and also turn the relay service off.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The whole turn-off could ripple through the net in a couple of weeks, with luck :)<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The question really is how many systems are using 6to4 by choice? If it's an issue with address selection where native IPv4 and 6to4 exist, then that should be fixed, else the relays will always be needed. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The geeks who want IPv6 can surely use tunnel brokers.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Tim<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>