The use of RIPng

[Benedikt Stockebrand]

Hi Mark and list,

Mark Tinka <mtinka at globaltransit.net> writes:

> But that's just me; it's a free world, you're welcome to run 
> whatever you like :-).

if that includes running RIP that's fine with me:-)

> [...]
> These might probably afford to employ someone like yourself 
> to come in as-needed to fix problems with their link state 
> routing protocol.

(I'm not the one coming in, but some of the people that show up in my
workshops do.)

The problem here is the time it takes to call someone in.  That time
does cost money.

And yes, software developers are particularly notorious at wantonly
breaking things and then making things worse by trying to fix them.

Finally, I assume you are rather network/routing-centric.  With my
customers that's only one of many relevant topics.

> If you're spending too much debugging your IGP, your probably have a
> poor network design to start with.

Agreed. 

Unfortunately there are *many* of those "historically grown" network
designs around.

And then there are those people who claim that you just bring in OSPF
(or EIGRP) and all problems will magically go away.

The problem however is if you *rarely* touch anything.  When things
happen you're bound to figure out how you---or somebody else---made
things work months and years ago.

> I think routing protocols are as relevant to IP as IP, itself, is.

>From your perspective it is, and since that's what you are paid for
that's how it ought to be.

But there are other issues far more pressing to some people: 

- Will /whatever/ software work with IPv6, and if not, how do I fix it
  and how much work is involved there?  

- What about performance impacts on applications?  (Two of the more
  unusual participants in a training asked specifically about
  performance impacts on the DNS.  They were working for DeNIC...)

- What needs to be done with regard to monitoring?

- What should change about the network topology when IPv6 is deployed?

- Where do I find a replacement for my current XXX stuff?

I've done rather network-centric workshops, too, and I've even done a
two day in-house course on IPv6 protocol internals because that's what
the customer wanted, but most of the time a network-centric workshop
would have a far too narrow focus for my "usual" customers.

> Whatever they take in now will stick for a very long time, 
> and what we've seen with workshops is the hardest thing to 
> teach participants is how to "unlearn" the bad stuff they've 
> picked up from allover.

It's not that I don't explain about the limitations of RIP and why
OSPF may eventually become relevant.

But if you are dealing with people who so far have never touched any
dynamic routing at all, OSPF tends to scare them.

> I really can't tell you how to do your job. Only you know it 
> best :-).

No, but my customers do:-)

> But the fact about getting down the good principles in the start,
> remains, and personally, while you can't stop folk from doing what
> they want to do, RIP should really not be talked about in public,
> especially to virgin operators.

These aren't really "virgin operators" but people who have so far
stuck with static routes (think of the average Linux geek here for
example) and now want to avoid those pesky typos in IPv6 routing
tables.

It's pretty much down to "different customers have different needs".
And of course that the Internet is way too diverse for anybody to
entirely imagine anymore.


Cheers,

    Benedikt

-- 
			 Business Grade IPv6
		    Consulting, Training, Projects

Benedikt Stockebrand, Dipl.-Inform.   http://www.benedikt-stockebrand.de/