The use of RIPng

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at
Wed Jun 2 19:48:57 CEST 2010

On 6/1/2010 2:22 PM, Benedikt Stockebrand wrote:
> Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm at>  writes:
>> For networks like that we use 1 decent Internet router (we -always-
>> make any ISP that mandates an ISP-supplied CPE, set it up as a
>> bridge or router providing a subnet) and 1 decent managed layer 3
>> gigabit switch - Netgear makes some really nice SOHO 24&  48 port
>> fully managed ones that aren't that expensive - if we have to create
>> the same kind of network.
> I fully agree with the *decent* ISP :-)
> With the rest it is slightly more complex:
>> Or, just use a flat network and MAC address filtering to prevent the
>> different departments from seeing servers and such that they are not
>> supposed to get to and a layer 2 switch.
> This assumes that people don't do much fooling around, which is a
> reasonable assumption for a non-IT shop but not necessarily for a
> small software company or engineering office or such.
>> With fewer hardware boxes there's much less to go wrong.
> Agreed---as long as you still have arranged for access to spare
> components.
> It's just another variation of the "keeping complexity out where it
> doesn't help" theme.

Complexity like running a routing protocol on each WS? ;-)

>> But rarely do we ever see that kind of need in a SOHO.
> I'm not talking SoHo (as defined by what's generally sold as "SoHo
> equipment") here, but a bit larger.

We operate quite a lot in the low-end given our customer base's
demands and I've got a lot of experience with the low-end gear as
a result.  The truth of the matter is that there really isn't a
defined "SOHO" and a defined "business class" and a defined
"industrial grade" class in networking gear anymore, at least, not
for anything costing under $1,000.00 USD  It's all marketing.

For example take the Westell 2100 bridged DSL modem.  Cheap as
dirt, aimed directly at the lowest-common-denominator garbage-grade
consumer, the last one rolled off the assembly line years ago, and
the used market is flooded with them - people can't give them away.  You 
would think this is a tremendous POS DSL modem.  Yet,
I can take a used one of those modems, couple it up to a $20.00 Airlink 
101 router running dd-wrt, and for about $40 in parts have an 
installation that doesn't generate a callback, and runs at 7MBts all
day long.  However, I can attempt the same thing with a $400 Cisco 827 
all-in-one DSL modem/router
on the exact same DSL line and I get regular callbacks.  I have to
move up in the Cisco line to a modular router with an internal DSL
WIC before I get the same reliability as the $40 solution, and I
have the call history to prove it.

This does NOT mean that all cheap solutions are reliable.  The
Westell 327 for example is pure trash.

> I'm thinking of the sort of
> people who actually need their network up and running to stay in
> business.

Hmm, well we treat all our customers, including the residential ones,
this way.  I very much doubt that you could give me a 25-host network
scenario that wasn't a corner case that couldn't be made reliable with a 
wide variety of products at a wide variety of price points.  It's
all in the selection and knowing the limitations of the gear.  It's
a bit snobby to infer that cheap "soho" products are for people who
don't actually need their network up and running to stay in business,
and it definitely contradicts what I've seen with my own 2 eyes down
here in the trenches.

In any case, as far as Internet connectivity goes, the Telco's
control the reliability of THAT.  You could be Microsoft for
all they care - if the fiber-seeking backhoe has chosen the day before
your taxes are due to be uploaded to the government to sever your 
connection, then your going to have to wait until whenever the Telco 
damn well feels like it before your connectivity is restored.  If you
get penalized, that's your problem.

Perhaps the Telco's operate differently in Germany?


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